On Monday I asked you how much you’d charge for a low centerpiece that included a glass vase filled with roses and hydrangeas and placed on a cymbidium orchid pedestal. I gave four possible answers:
A) $350
B) $550
C) $700
D) None of the above
Lots of you shared your answers, which was wonderful! But I’d like to address one comment in particular. Here’s what Cassandra had to say:
“D, none of the above. I charge my brides a design fee and then offer them the flowers at wholesale cost. They can Google the cost of the flowers (transparency at it’s finest), so this way they know my fee upfront and accept it.”
Another commenter, Carolyn, wrote that she was very curious to know my response to Cassandra. Here it is:
Dear Cassandra,
Unfortunately, I can’t even begin to understand your pricing system. You claim that your model is transparency at its’ finest, but how do you determine an appropriate design fee for your clients before you’ve created their floral arrangements?
I worry, too, that the message you’re sending to clients is dangerous. You’re suggesting that it’s okay to disregard artistry and concentrate exclusively on the wholesale price of the flowers. I’d love if you could explain how your method works to both Carolyn and myself. Maybe we’re missing something and could learn a thing or two from you!
Dear Readers, what do you think of Cassandra’s pricing method?
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George Bernard Shaw once said: “You see things and say, ‘Why?’ But I dream things that never were and say, ‘Why not?’” That quote embodies how Preston Bailey approaches every event.
Yvonne
June 8, 2012
I have to agree that Cassandra’s pricing method is confusing and also flawed. Firstly, the exact same flower can fluctuate quite a bit, what costs last year can go up anywhere 10-30% higher this year depending a lot of factors such as whether there is suddenly a surge of demand or less supply due to bad weather etc. Does she just pass on the receipts of the flowers she bought to the client and expect them to pay? If I am the client, I do not like that uncertainty. For larger jobs, part of my markup include e.g. unexpected higher price of certain flowers and also if some of the flowers I receive are of substandard quality, I do try to get better flowers even if it eats into my profits, I think it’s just one of the risks floral designers have to take if they want to provide a better service. Second, as you rightly asked, what does she base her design fee on? If she’s actually running a business, then the so called design fee must include labour, setup, profit etc. If so, calling it design fee is most misleading.
Thank you so much, Preston, for all your insights and raising questions, your pricing posts get me thinking about the system I have just developed and also you encouraing us to create designs that clients simply can’t resist really is the key, if they want it badly, then they will pay.
I would like to ask something if I may on pricing, for larger jobs, I find it easier to estimate how many stems I need and minimise wastage. But for smaller jobs, I find it harder because let’s say I use 5 different flowers for an arrangement, I bought 10 garden roses, 10 spray roses, 10 lilac, 1 hydrangea, 1 stem of phalaenopsis and end up using the hydrangea, 6 or 7 of each of the roses, spray roses and lilac and half of the phalaenopsis stem, based on what I used, I get the markup I want. But the problem lies with the surplus, sometimes I throw in more and tell the client that I have added extra flowers. Other times, I will make small posies and give them to friends. Those surplus really eats into my profits and I am not sure whether there is a good way to minimise wastage.
Clare
June 8, 2012
Preston, I completely agree with your comments. Yvonne, wastage is tough. Wherever I can I repurpose those flowers, either for a mini styled shoot, deliver to a strategic contact (say a venue coordinator or wedding planner I’m trying to develop a relationship with), or as a separate gift to the client (where they clearly understand that it’s over and above what they ordered). That way, you can, even in an indirect way, realize some of the benefit of the extra flowers.
Bucktown Guy
June 8, 2012
“Design Fee”? How do you price that?
Best practice – charge for EVERYTHING!
Laurel
June 8, 2012
I am in the Seattle area and I know of 1 “independent designer” aka Basement Betty who charges this way and honestly I think it just damages the industry. I saw her pricing quote for a wedding I have booked and although I try to be very reasonable her quote was crazy like bridal bouquet in holder of white w/ black center gerbs $40, bout’s $3e, corsages $10e… – There is no way I can compete with that or would want to. Frankly it’s an insult to the floral industry equating us with fast food and mass production. Taking into consideration my time, overhead and fluctuating cost of fresh products I would be losing money if I used her methodology. I have seen some of this lady’s work and it is a prime example of “you get what you pay for…” I am very proud to say that we are a true retail florist and we take a lot of pride in our artistry and craftsmanship and every arrangement that comes out of our shop is custom tailored to our clients specifications using only the finest freshest flowers available. Although we do not mark up the industry standard of 3.5x regularly or 5x for weddings we do still make sure our costs are covered, our labor is covered and our time is covered. This way of doing business makes our clients happy and makes us a profitable shop.
lenee valentine
June 8, 2012
Wow Preston, these pricing blogs have been really helpful for. I need a full course on this issue.
Flowerlover
June 8, 2012
Love this series and all of your insights. Thank you so much for showing how you price and I am happy to say my pricing fits right along with yours.
Lyn W
June 9, 2012
Although I respect Cassandra’s way of conducting business, I have to agree with you Preston. I’m not sure how anyone can charge a design fee or even put a price of their design before they’ve even created their arrangement.
On another note, I would love to see the costings of the huge but beautiful trees you use, including the trees in their ‘natural’ states and your beautiful crystal and ribbon trees. But that’s more for my own curiosity because I would love to have some of those at my wedding, ha ha!
Navjot Kaur
June 9, 2012
Pricing is a very delicate issue. I would agree that having transparency is absolutely a fablous idea and only create a shared understanding between a vendor and cliente. If you are a experienced designed then you would guess by looking at a arrangement that what design fee to add in terms of resources used plus your time plus added experience. I would never do what Carolyn is doing. When we go to Apple store, we get a finished product for a set price and we pay in full with no questions asked. Then why we have to sell our product in a way which only shift the industry standard not in favor of the vendors and only hits us hard in long run.
Loraine
June 9, 2012
A “design fee!” This has got to be the biggest load of crap I’ve ever heard. One rule of business is when you buy something, you add a markup for resale. And your must markup enough to cover your expenses – such as ordering, receiving, processing and storing flowers and a profit. If customers want a wholesale price, the let them work with a wholesaler and process the flower themselves. As wedding designers we’ve got to get serious about our BUSINESS (this is what it is) and ensure that our practices are professional and support the development of the industry. Enough already with this..i just love to work with flowers…i just love to do weddings! When you are 65 yrs old and have no retirement funds because you have not made enough money to live and retire comfortably…see how much you love weddings then!
Katherine
June 9, 2012
I have found this discussion on pricing very interesting. The floral industry is a challenging one, in that it is so dynamic and so many elements are constantly in flux. That in itself is hard to manage, never mind the more typical business expenses that we must acknowledge: overhead, rent, payroll, etc. I am relatively new to the business and still working on a small scale; I work alone and am lucky to have low expenses. That being said, I have struggled to develop a pricing strategy from inception. While I was gaining experience (and confidence), I charged lower rates, partly to compensate for my learning curve. Now, I confidently charge a 200% markup on cost(keep in mind I do not pay someone else, so my ‘labour cost’ is my personal income). I have also found my comfort in defending my pricing- I will not provide work under a minimum order- especially when a large expense for me is gas/ delivery. Like some of the other readers, I struggle with surplus. However, I have found that if I prepare an estimate, I will do so with slightly lower quantities. This ensures I have product in case of damage/ poor quality, while lowering/ eliminating the cost of surplus product. That being said, most of the extra flowers get incorporated into my work- I would rather provide this ‘bonus’ and have the work be even more than expected to so that my clients go from ‘satisfied’ to ‘extremely satisfied’. I think pricing is something we all struggle with, but what is more important is to find a structure that we feel comfortable with, is honest, and allows us to operate a healthy business so that we may continue to provide beautiful work to those who seek it. We must not sight of our value.
Carolyn
June 11, 2012
Thank you for addressing this PB. =)
Cassandra’s “method” says “hobbyist” and not “pro” designer, in my opinion. Although, I too, would love to hear her explanation to this. Im all for learning something new, even after 28 years in the business! ; )
To me, an industry standard pricing should be followed by pros in any professional arena, whether its the wedding biz, a dentist, construction, furniture, etc. To do otherwise, hurts you and more importantly the entire industry. It also breeds mistrust with potential clients. Ive experienced this first hand…
The only time I have run into this sort of pricing was about 2 years ago, when a high profile “wedding designer” in Charleston SC took a client from me by doing this same thing. The client walked away from her 5K deposit with me since “X” was going to give her all of the flowers at wholesale cost and charge a design fee “X’s” reply to me was “I guess I’m just too kind to my clients for my own good”
Whhaaaaat?????
I expressed to her that I didnt appreciate being thrown under the bus in front of a client like that.
I suppose she makes enough money from her books that she can do that, but its bad for the floral industry for sure. =(
Celia MIlton
June 11, 2012
So, Cassandra has the wholesale cost of flowers (which can vary wildly) and the ‘design fee’ covered. Is she charging a rent fee, a phone bill fee, a tax fee, a ‘cost of being on the phone talking to the clients book and the clients who don’t fee”?
I don’t think that’s admirable at all. I think it’s a sure way to go out of business.
qYPr0Go
October 10, 2012
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